Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful pilot

[Dave]

Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot
The Times reports (article 23rd July entitiled "Box junctions to be
policed by camera") that following the success of trial in 6 boroughs
where there was a 23% reduction in the number of motorists stopping in
yellow boxes, box-junction cameras are to be offered to all 33 councils
in London. The pilot scheme involved 96,000 penalty charge (£50 or
£100) notices being issued during the trial, including 31,000 that
were issued to drivers stopping in box junctions, 1,700 issued to
motorists ignoring no entry signs, and 10,000 given to motorists for
driving where vehicles are not permitted.

As these are rolled out London wide, hopefully more road users will see
the benefits of reduced congestion. I will be writing to my council
suggesting a couple of areas where they might consider putting a box
junction camera, where I have seen drivers causing congestion by
breaking box junction rules. Other readers here may consider doing the
same.

Dave

[Sean]

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot
The Times reports (article 23rd July entitiled "Box junctions to be
policed by camera") that following the success of trial in 6 boroughs
where there was a 23% reduction in the number of motorists stopping in
yellow boxes, box-junction cameras are to be offered to all 33 councils
in London. The pilot scheme involved 96,000 penalty charge (£50 or
£100) notices being issued during the trial, including 31,000 that
were issued to drivers stopping in box junctions, 1,700 issued to
motorists ignoring no entry signs, and 10,000 given to motorists for
driving where vehicles are not permitted.
As these are rolled out London wide, hopefully more road users will see
the benefits of reduced congestion. I will be writing to my council
suggesting a couple of areas where they might consider putting a box
junction camera, where I have seen drivers causing congestion by
breaking box junction rules. Other readers here may consider doing the
same.

How do these work. I am particularly thinking of the case where people have
stopped in them to turn right?

If you found yourself stuck in a box junction, could you just put on your
right indicator to try and "save" yourself?

Sean

[Daytona]

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot

They're morons, as are the politicians who passed the law. The law has
not been drafted correctly -



Legal to stop -

Turning right & oncoming traffic
Turning right & queued behind vehicle turning right (the reasons for
the vehicle in at the head of the queue not completing the move are
irrelevant)
Not turning right and not blocked by stationary vehicles


Illegal to stop -

At head of a queue turning right & no oncoming traffic
Not turning right and blocked by stationary vehicles


Legal to remain stationary -

Turning right & oncoming traffic
Turning right & queued behind vehicle turning right (the reasons for
the vehicle in at the head of the queue not completing the move are
irrelevant)
Not turning right.


Illegal to remain stationary -

At head of a queue turning right & no oncoming traffic

[Mizter T]

Post by Daytona

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot

They're morons, as are the politicians who passed the law. The law has
not been drafted correctly -
Legal to stop -
Turning right & oncoming traffic
Turning right & queued behind vehicle turning right (the reasons for
the vehicle in at the head of the queue not completing the move are
irrelevant)
Not turning right and not blocked by stationary vehicles
Illegal to stop -
At head of a queue turning right & no oncoming traffic
Not turning right and blocked by stationary vehicles
Legal to remain stationary -
Turning right & oncoming traffic
Turning right & queued behind vehicle turning right (the reasons for
the vehicle in at the head of the queue not completing the move are
irrelevant)
Not turning right.
Illegal to remain stationary -
At head of a queue turning right & no oncoming traffic

Thanks for that info, I was not aware on the exemptions for right
turning vehicles, and I'm very glad they exist. I live near a box
junction that's on a main road where I often turn right. If I was to
stay out of the yellow box then I'd block all the traffic behind me (on
a major road), the vast majority of which is carrying straight on over
the junction. So I stop in the middle of the junction, waiting for a
gap in the oncoming traffic so I can execute my right turn, and leaving
the route clear for vehicles behind me to continue straight over.
Before reading this, I always thought I was technically in the wrong,
but it'd appear not.

[Chris Tolley]

I live near a box junction that's on a main road where I often turn
right. If I was to stay out of the yellow box then I'd block all the
traffic behind me (on a major road), the vast majority of which is
carrying straight on over the junction. So I stop in the middle of
the junction, waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic so I can
execute my right turn, and leaving the route clear for vehicles
behind me to continue straight over. Before reading this, I always
thought I was technically in the wrong, but it'd appear not.

No, you're in the right in the circumstance you describe.

[Mizter T]

Post by Chris Tolley

I live near a box junction that's on a main road where I often turn
right. If I was to stay out of the yellow box then I'd block all the
traffic behind me (on a major road), the vast majority of which is
carrying straight on over the junction. So I stop in the middle of
the junction, waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic so I can
execute my right turn, and leaving the route clear for vehicles
behind me to continue straight over. Before reading this, I always
thought I was technically in the wrong, but it'd appear not.

No, you're in the right in the circumstance you describe.

Thanks. Perhaps I need to review the Highway Code and see what else I'm
unaware of!

[MrBitsy]

Post by Mizter T
Before reading this, I always thought I was technically in the wrong

But did it anyway.

[John Rowland]

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London
wide following successful pilot

I have found a box junction where you can't see whether the exit is clear
until you have already entered it. I have also found a box junction on the
brow of a hill where you have no idea how far the box extends until you have
already entered it. While I can't stand people who habitually block
junctions, professional drivers will find it very hard not to get a fine a
week

[Chris Tolley]

Post by John Rowland
I have found a box junction where you can't see whether the exit is clear
until you have already entered it. I have also found a box junction on the
brow of a hill where you have no idea how far the box extends until you have
already entered it.

Where are they?

[John Rowland]

Post by Chris Tolley

Post by John Rowland
I have found a box junction where you can't see whether
the exit is clear until you have already entered it. I have
also found a box junction on the brow of a hill where you
have no idea how far the box extends until you have
already entered it.

Where are they?

I can't remember.

Incidentally, at Palmers Green the North Circular is a dual carriageway, and
if you are crossing it on Green Lanes you cross two separate box junctions.
People turning right onto the NCR tend to queue over both boxes, but am I
right in thinking that legally they are only allowed to queue over the
second box? It takes fairly sharp eyes to even realise that there are two
box junctions rather than one, especially in the dark.

[David from Oz]

Coincidence - that is one junction in my area that I have nominated in
my letter to the council. On more than one occasion the North Circ has
been blocked here! I guess they will put up yellow signs "Do not
block the junction" when they first introduce the cameras to give the
motorists warning. I seem to remember seeing these somewhere before.

Post by John Rowland
I can't remember.
Incidentally, at Palmers Green the North Circular is a dual carriageway, and
if you are crossing it on Green Lanes you cross two separate box junctions.
People turning right onto the NCR tend to queue over both boxes, but am I
right in thinking that legally they are only allowed to queue over the
second box? It takes fairly sharp eyes to even realise that there are two
box junctions rather than one, especially in the dark.
--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7069/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

[Earl Purple]

Post by David from Oz
Coincidence - that is one junction in my area that I have nominated in
my letter to the council. On more than one occasion the North Circ has
been blocked here! I guess they will put up yellow signs "Do not
block the junction" when they first introduce the cameras to give the
motorists warning. I seem to remember seeing these somewhere before.

Unlikely the council can do anything there, the North Circular Road is
controlled by Tfl.

That junction should be grade-separated, of course, but failing that at
least having no right turns at all sides would ease the congestion
there.

Only Northbound traffic from the Wood Green end of the A105 would have
to take any real diversion - they could go ahead then right into
Oakthorpe Road. Larger vehicles should use Lordship Lane then join the
A1080 and A10, or go ahead then turn right into the A111 Hedge Lane.

Traffic from the A406 coming West should turn off at the Great
Cambridge roundabout then head along A111 Hedge Lane. Smaller vehicles
could optionally "rat-run" instead through Melville Gardens, but then
you wouldn't get as much traffic using that road who genuinely want to
remain on the North Circular.

Other traffic certainly doesn't need to turn right there - there are
loads of other routes.

[John Rowland]

Post by Earl Purple
Only Northbound traffic from the Wood Green end of
the A105 would have to take any real diversion - they
could go ahead then right into Oakthorpe Road. Larger
vehicles should use Lordship Lane then join the
A1080 and A10, or go ahead then turn right
into the A111 Hedge Lane.

This would go against planning principles. A better solution would be to
create w/b to e/b u-turning loop west of the junction - I am pretty sure
there is enough room there for it. Any traffic from the south to the east
would turn left at the junction and then u-turn.

Post by Earl Purple
Traffic from the A406 coming West should turn off at the Great
Cambridge roundabout then head along A111 Hedge Lane.

Or use the u-turning loop and then do a left.

[Earl Purple]

Post by John Rowland

Post by Earl Purple
Only Northbound traffic from the Wood Green end of
the A105 would have to take any real diversion - they
could go ahead then right into Oakthorpe Road. Larger
vehicles should use Lordship Lane then join the
A1080 and A10, or go ahead then turn right
into the A111 Hedge Lane.

This would go against planning principles. A better solution would be to
create w/b to e/b u-turning loop west of the junction - I am pretty sure
there is enough room there for it. Any traffic from the south to the east
would turn left at the junction and then u-turn.

Post by Earl Purple
Traffic from the A406 coming West should turn off at the Great
Cambridge roundabout then head along A111 Hedge Lane.

Or use the u-turning loop and then do a left.

There is some space in Bowes Road but I don't really think there'd be
enough for a U-turning loop there, plus it has the disadvantage that
some of the right-turning traffic must negotiate the junction twice,
thus increasing the volume on the junction. Plus the U-turning loop
would have to be signal-controlled, and would be too close to the
junction and two signal-controls close together spell bad news (the
main problem of the Great Cambridge junction - I know I was planning to
push more traffic onto it. However it's on the North Circular I'm
trying to increase the flow). Remember it's the lorries that would be
using it - the small cars are more likely to use Oakthorpe Road. Your
solution might work though if built well, i.e. the A406 gets a longer
green. (Without right-turns, the A105 would not require such a long
green).

[Chris Tolley]

at Palmers Green are two separate box junctions. People turning right
tend to queue over both boxes, but am I right in thinking that
legally they are only allowed to queue over the second box?

Yes. Since the exit to the first box is blocked by traffic queueing to
enter the second one, you may not enter the first one.

It's a really simple pair of rules that govern these things.
1: you may only enter the box if your exit is clear.
2: you may only stop in the box if a conflicting traffic movement
prevents you leaving it.

This is why I'm concerned about the examples in your previous post. Pity
you can't remember where they are.

[Earl Purple]

Post by John Rowland
Incidentally, at Palmers Green the North Circular is a dual carriageway, and
if you are crossing it on Green Lanes you cross two separate box junctions.
People turning right onto the NCR tend to queue over both boxes, but am I
right in thinking that legally they are only allowed to queue over the
second box? It takes fairly sharp eyes to even realise that there are two
box junctions rather than one, especially in the dark.

If I had my way they'd make that junction No-Right-Turn from all
directions. Works at the A502 junction and there are rarely major
hold-ups there.

[David from Oz]

John Rowland wrote:

"professional drivers will find it very hard not to get a fine a week"

This statement assumes that box junction cameras will be used at such
junctions, something that is not likely to happen if the box junction
is of the type described and common sense is used when choosing camera
sites!

[Dr Zoidberg]

"common sense is used when choosing camera sites!"

Hehehehe , I think most people can provide an example of where this is not
the case.

Usually "profitability" is used when choosing those sites

[Conor]

In article <dc05m6$3oh$1$***@news.demon.co.uk>, John Rowland
says...

Post by John Rowland
While I can't stand people who habitually block
junctions, professional drivers will find it very hard not to get a fine a
week

Bollocks.

I've only ever had one fine for entering a box and that was on a
roundabout at the top of the Tyne Tunnel in rush hour. Its a notorious
spot and the police sit on the central reservation taking registration
numbers. I had no choice because car drivers refused to obey the
Highway Code thus meaning that the large gap I left to get my 53ft long
vehicle into was filled with cars as I was actually driving into it
thus leaving me hanging 6ft over it.

[Graculus]

Post by Conor
I've only ever had one fine for entering a box and that was on a
roundabout at the top of the Tyne Tunnel in rush hour. Its a notorious
spot and the police sit on the central reservation taking registration
numbers. I had no choice because car drivers refused to obey the
Highway Code thus meaning that the large gap I left to get my 53ft long
vehicle into was filled with cars as I was actually driving into it
thus leaving me hanging 6ft over it.

At least you knew the length of your vehicle, unlike the truck driver who I
saw driving onto a box junction at a level crossing only to come to a halt
with much of the truck being on the crossing. Not only stupid but
exceedingly dangerous. Or if not dangerous, could have caused delays as they
would have been unable to close the crossing till he moved off.

[Conor]

Post by Graculus
At least you knew the length of your vehicle, unlike the truck driver who I
saw driving onto a box junction at a level crossing only to come to a halt
with much of the truck being on the crossing. Not only stupid but
exceedingly dangerous. Or if not dangerous, could have caused delays as they
would have been unable to close the crossing till he moved off.

That's just plain stupid. At least with the roundabout, there was a
reason I ended up hanging over. At a level crossing, there's nothing
going to be barging in the gap in front of him.

[Peter]

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot
The Times reports (article 23rd July entitiled "Box junctions to be
policed by camera") that following the success of trial in 6 boroughs
where there was a 23% reduction in the number of motorists stopping in
yellow boxes, box-junction cameras are to be offered to all 33 councils
in London. The pilot scheme involved 96,000 penalty charge (£50 or
£100) notices being issued during the trial, including 31,000 that
were issued to drivers stopping in box junctions, 1,700 issued to
motorists ignoring no entry signs, and 10,000 given to motorists for
driving where vehicles are not permitted.
As these are rolled out London wide, hopefully more road users will see
the benefits of reduced congestion. I will be writing to my council
suggesting a couple of areas where they might consider putting a box
junction camera, where I have seen drivers causing congestion by
breaking box junction rules. Other readers here may consider doing the
same.

Cool, I can't wait to hear what the speeding mob have to say about it.
They'll probably be moaning like they do about the speed cameras. If
only they could have cameras for every (or almost every) offence.

[Graculus]

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot

Cool, I can't wait to hear what the speeding mob have to say about it.
They'll probably be moaning like they do about the speed cameras. If
only they could have cameras for every (or almost every) offence.

Like poor lane discipline (see another ongoing thread).

[PC Paul]

Post by Peter

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot

Cool, I can't wait to hear what the speeding mob have to say about it.
They'll probably be moaning like they do about the speed cameras. If
only they could have cameras for every (or almost every) offence.
Like poor lane discipline (see another ongoing thread).

I guess I'm one of the 'speeding mob' ;-)

I'd love it. If it was possible to have cameras for 'almost every' offence
then a lot of the dimwitted but always 'I'm below the limit so I'm safe'
drivers would rapidly be clobbered with dangerous driving, tailgating,
DWDCA, and the roads would clear up rapidly.

It's been said before and it always gets ignored but I'll try again.

If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and most
importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not instead of
it, most people here would not have a problem with Scameras..

[Chris Tolley]

Post by PC Paul
If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and
most importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not
instead of it, most people here would not have a problem with
Scameras..

If you are caught by a cam on a DC (assuming national speed limits), it
follows that you are driving at more than 70mph. The fact you think this
is a problem indicates your limited consideration for other road users.
*You* might be perfectly in control of your car at 125 mph, but since
others on the road are not also doing comparable speeds, you are a
significant danger to *them*, especially when it comes to them changing
lanes to overtake, for example. Few drivers are actually as good as they
think they are, and the best ones consider others as well as themselves
more than your comment suggests you do.

[Richard Bullock]

Post by Chris Tolley
If you are caught by a cam on a DC (assuming national speed limits), it
follows that you are driving at more than 70mph.

But that (DCs being NSL) is a big assumption in today's world. Many entirely
rural dual carriageway roads with modern alignments and few junctions have
had their speed limits reduced below the NSL.

[Dave Liney]

Post by Richard Bullock

Post by Chris Tolley
If you are caught by a cam on a DC (assuming national speed limits), it
follows that you are driving at more than 70mph.

But that (DCs being NSL) is a big assumption in today's world. Many
entirely rural dual carriageway roads with modern alignments and few
junctions have had their speed limits reduced below the NSL.

And then you turn off down a narrow country lane and find that you are
allowed to go faster than you were on the dual carriageway. Makes you wonder
what various council transport departments are on sometimes.

Dave.

[Chris Tolley]

Post by Richard Bullock

Post by Chris Tolley
If you are caught by a cam on a DC (assuming national speed limits), it
follows that you are driving at more than 70mph.

But that (DCs being NSL) is a big assumption in today's world. Many entirely
rural dual carriageway roads with modern alignments and few junctions have
had their speed limits reduced below the NSL.

Clarification: the assumption was only so that I could put a figure
later in the sentence. It wasn't an assumption that all DC's are NSL.

[Peter]

Post by PC Paul
I guess I'm one of the 'speeding mob' ;-)
I'd love it. If it was possible to have cameras for 'almost every' offence
then a lot of the dimwitted but always 'I'm below the limit so I'm safe'
drivers would rapidly be clobbered with dangerous driving, tailgating,
DWDCA, and the roads would clear up rapidly.
It's been said before and it always gets ignored but I'll try again.
If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and most
importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not instead of
it, most people here would not have a problem with Scameras..

We may have a 'problem' with these cameras, but it doesn't justify
breaking the law. Doing 80mph along a road is illegal whether there's
a camera or not! The sad thing is that the country is full of people
who have no respect for the law.

[Mark Foster]

Post by Peter

Post by PC Paul
I guess I'm one of the 'speeding mob' ;-)
I'd love it. If it was possible to have cameras for 'almost every' offence
then a lot of the dimwitted but always 'I'm below the limit so I'm safe'
drivers would rapidly be clobbered with dangerous driving, tailgating,
DWDCA, and the roads would clear up rapidly.
It's been said before and it always gets ignored but I'll try again.
If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and most
importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not instead of
it, most people here would not have a problem with Scameras..

We may have a 'problem' with these cameras, but it doesn't justify
breaking the law. Doing 80mph along a road is illegal whether there's
a camera or not! The sad thing is that the country is full of people
who have no respect for the law.

Amen! :-)

[Sean]

Peter wrote:

<snip />

Post by Peter
We may have a 'problem' with these cameras, but it doesn't justify
breaking the law. Doing 80mph along a road is illegal whether there's
a camera or not! The sad thing is that the country is full of people
who have no respect for the law.

I think that is slightly untrue. The majority of people have respect for
the majority of laws.

The fact that speeding *in certain locations* is one of the few laws where a
significant minority from all cross-sections of the community don't have
respect for, suggests that the law in those locations needs rethinking.
Also is funny that those laws often aren't set by parliament, but by local
councillors.

Sean

[McKev]

Post by Dave
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot
The Times reports (article 23rd July entitiled "Box junctions to be
policed by camera") that following the success of trial in 6 boroughs
where there was a 23% reduction in the number of motorists stopping in
yellow boxes, box-junction cameras are to be offered to all 33
councils in London. The pilot scheme involved 96,000 penalty charge
(£50 or £100) notices being issued during the trial, including 31,000
that were issued to drivers stopping in box junctions, 1,700 issued to
motorists ignoring no entry signs, and 10,000 given to motorists for
driving where vehicles are not permitted.
As these are rolled out London wide, hopefully more road users will
see the benefits of reduced congestion. I will be writing to my
council suggesting a couple of areas where they might consider
putting a box junction camera, where I have seen drivers causing
congestion by breaking box junction rules. Other readers here may
consider doing the same.

Get a fuckin grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough cash out of
us???
Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no fuckin way.
Is there going to be a camera for every possible offence? How about if
someone lets their dog shit in the park and doesnt
dispose of it? Will there be a flash and a NIP? Where will it end?

McKev

[Conor]

In article <reUEe.25321$***@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, McKev
says...

Post by McKev
Get a fuckin grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough cash out of
us???

Domations to cameras are completely voluntary.

Post by McKev
Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no fuckin way.

It's called BREAKING THE LAW. Surely you believe that people who break
the law sgould be punished?

[McKev]

Post by Conor
says...

Post by McKev
Get a fuckin grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough
cash out of us???

Domations to cameras are completely voluntary.

Post by McKev
Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no fuckin way.

It's called BREAKING THE LAW. Surely you believe that people who break
the law sgould be punished?

Not at every turn though Conor (for motoring) - what the fuck kind of nation
are we coming to here?

McKev

[steve]

Post by McKev

Post by Conor
says...

Post by McKev
Get a fuckin grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough cash
out of us???

Domations to cameras are completely voluntary.

Post by McKev
Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no fuckin way.

It's called BREAKING THE LAW. Surely you believe that people who break
the law sgould be punished?

Not at every turn though Conor (for motoring) - what the fuck kind of
nation are we coming to here?

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

Post by McKev
McKev

[Neil Williams]

Post by steve
One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently. That needs the junction to be redesigned, not
for lots of people to be fined.

My personal view is that I am against traffic enforcement cameras, and
would rather see more police officers out enforcing the law, and using
discretion as appropriate. An increase in the level of fines would go
some way to funding this.

Neil

[Richard J.]

Post by Neil Williams

Post by steve
One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes
congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently.

I agree. I think many of the boxes are larger than necessary, filling
the whole space between the stop lines on either side of the junction,
rather than just leaving a gap in the middle. The result is that
drivers realise that there are parts of the box that can be occupied
without affecting traffic flow, and that the capacity of the junction
would be reduced if the law was rigidly observed. If we're going to have
zero tolerance of yellow box offences, then the boxes need to be more
sensibly drawn.

[Martin Brown]

Post by Neil Williams

Post by steve
One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently. That needs the junction to be redesigned, not
for lots of people to be fined.

I disagree. Most of the prats that go out into box junctions with their
exit blocked know exactly what they are doing and just don't give a
damn. Ditto for the ones that run red lights (and I would like to see
very much tougher penalties for that offence which endangers life).

Ideally the cameras should cover both if they are installed.

Post by Neil Williams
My personal view is that I am against traffic enforcement cameras, and
would rather see more police officers out enforcing the law, and using
discretion as appropriate. An increase in the level of fines would go
some way to funding this.

Box junctions help make traffic flow freely and prevent congestion.

I have lived in countries where they do not have this concept at all.
Traffic utterly ignores traffic lights at rush hour and a solid
herringbone of interlocked vehicles develops. They needed 2 or 3
policemen on every junction in the city for 2 hours morning and evening
to try and prevent complete gridlock. They spend most of their time
flailing arms uselessly in the air and blowing whistles. It is funny to
watch...

Regards,
Martin Brown

[Earl Purple]

Often caused by a bad junction, usually one with 2 traffic lights close
together. The second light is red far too long, and so traffic from one
phase of the first light fills up all the available space and traffic
from the second phase can never move.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Earl Purple
Often caused by a bad junction, usually one with 2 traffic lights close
together. The second light is red far too long, and so traffic from one
phase of the first light fills up all the available space and traffic
from the second phase can never move.

I've seen that in Central London.

A junction on a one-way street where a road joins from the left.

The road ahead fills up with traffic emerging from your left, and
there's no gap between the rear of the last car to emerge, and the box.

The traffic then sits there, stationary, all the time your light is
green.

Just as it starts to move, and leave you a gap to escape into across the
box, your light goes red.

The gap then fills up with traffic emerging from your left.

Rinse and repeat.

[Conor]

Post by Neil Williams

Post by steve
One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently.

Bollocks. If in doubt, stay out.

[Conor]

In article <Ov8Fe.29508$***@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, McKev
says...

Post by McKev
Not at every turn though Conor (for motoring) - what the fuck kind of nation
are we coming to here?

One where people think it's OK to break the law and as long as it's in
a car, you're not a "proper" criminal.

[John Rowland]

Post by Conor
Domations to cameras are completely voluntary.

Councils will decrease the frequency with which box junctions are repainted,
once they realise that faded box junctions bring in more revenue.

[Dave]

Box junction cameras are for my benefit, and the benefit of those who
want to get around town! Those fools who block box junctions cause
conjestion and delay everyone. I'm delighted if they get a £100 fine
because maybe they might think again before doing the same thing again.
Bring on more box junction cameras I say.

Top Gear had a feature where they hid near a box junction, and when
people stopped in it blocking other, a troupee of dancers pounced on
them to make them aware of what they had done. Fantastic!